CBR400RR NC29: Fuel injection based in Microsquirt EFI.

[L.Svedberg]

Hi mate!

So, how's everything going with the EFI conversion? Up and running bike now? I follow your project with interest and will bug you with all kinds of stupid questions soon! For example, is DIY autotune offering the ignition control board needed with the V3 MS? Which TPS sensor are you using? Can the MS cope with the RPMs we're at?

Cheers/

Lasse

[PARUS]

Hi mate!

So, how's everything going with the EFI conversion? Up and running bike now? I follow your project with interest and will bug you with all kinds of stupid questions soon! For example, is DIY autotune offering the ignition control board needed with the V3 MS? Which TPS sensor are you using? Can the MS cope with the RPMs we're at?

Cheers/

Lasse

Bike is running, I just need to find a time to make proper adjustments, maps ans so on.

is DIY autotune offering the ignition control board needed with the V3 MS?

Yes,
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/quad ... p-481.html

Which TPS sensor are you using?

I'm using CB400 TPS which came with throttle bodies, but I don't see any problem to use any existing in the world tps sensor....

Can the MS cope with the RPMs we're at?

Yes, it can support up to 30000 rpm.

JimStim, (which I used for testing) allow me to simulate about 16500RPM which is more that enough for our bike.


As I remember you do this for NC35. Here is guy do same - http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 35#p328915

[L.Svedberg]

Thanks for the short and straightforward answers! I must say, that NC35 efi conversion you linked to looks horrible..! I have never seen injectors put onto an engine that way...creative, but surely not the way to do it!

I'll be back with more stupid Q:s, so watch this space mate!

Lasse

[PARUS]

Thanks for the short and straightforward answers! I must say, that NC35 efi conversion you linked to looks horrible..! I have never seen injectors put onto an engine that way...creative, but surely not the way to do it!

I'll be back with more stupid Q:s, so watch this space mate!

Lasse

Yes, you're absolutelly right. Terrible fitting, but ever with such fuel injection you can run engine with microsquirt :))

[L.Svedberg]

Hi again!

So, I'm ready to order the EFI hardware stuff, and i have a few q:s:

Apart from the Microsquirt unit itself, I understand I need a few extras to cover ignition needs and O2(wide band/narrow band) monitoring?
Sensors?

Which parts/systems would you recommend? Which is the best/cheapest source to buy from?

Hope you have the time to write me a few answers!

Cheers and thanks/

Lasse

[PARUS]

Hi again!
So, I'm ready to order the EFI hardware stuff, and i have a few q:s:
Apart from the Microsquirt unit itself, I understand I need a few extras to cover ignition needs and O2(wide band/narrow band) monitoring?
Sensors?
Which parts/systems would you recommend? Which is the best/cheapest source to buy from?
Hope you have the time to write me a few answers!
Cheers and thanks/
Lasse

Hi Lasse,

I know you have very posh throttle bodies, but I will try to add full list in case someone else will ask same question.

So, to convert to EFI you need following.

1. Throttle bodies. I would recommend to buy TB that fit with minumum problems and modifications, because saving on buying cheapest TB will be cost you twice more when you start fitting this. Also try to find TB with closer inner diameter. The posible donor can be check here:
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/~WhyJDL.htm
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... dc1ffbf3d1

2. Fuel injectors. I think you can buy any from 400cc or 600cc bikes latest model will be more than enough - http://www.useasydocs.com/details/inject.htm I'm using jets from CB400 - Keihin R WH01



3. Fuel pump - I'm using CBR600RR, because it provide me suitable presure 250-343 kPa and easy to fine and replace.
Fuel preasure at idle: 343kPa (35kgf/cm2, 50psi)
Fuel pump flow (at 12V): 167cm3 (5,6 US oz, 5/9 lmp oz) minumum/10 seconds

4. Wiring looms. As far as we need separate connectors to the for different sensor. So, try to find wiring looms from same motorcycle which sensor do you use as donor. I'm personally use all from Honda CBR600RR, but sometimes other wiring have same commectors.
I would recommend CBR600, because it's from Honda, cheap, easy to find and closer to out NC29/30/35.

5. Coolant sensor. Really you can use original, but because it has general ground it's too noise. So, better to buy someting from CBR600 or Kawasaki. Looks like that are the same. Connector looks same for both wiring looms. And because it's three pin, some free output from the sensor you can use to comment to spedo - Mychron, Koso or any you're going to use.

6. Throttle position sensor (TPS) is generally installed to the donor TB and you can use it, but if you unhappy like Lasse and need to fabricate your own once you need to buy TPS as well. Buy any you like and fit to you requirements - any can be use with aftermarket EFI controllers. As far as I use CB400 Revo TB is alreasy has TPS installed and connector is the same as for CBR600RR.

7. Crank postion sensor - use can use stock one with a stock trigger wheel. It's too noise and you need 10-20K resistor.

8. MAP sensor can be also taken from CBR600. You can also buy any that recommend buy your aftermarket EFI controller supplier, because they generally have proper measurement and you don't need to care about measure it buy your own or asking about this information from manufactures. On CB400 or CBR600 looks like we have following sensor with following parameters:
MAP, Denso, 079800-7430
176 kpa 5V
-0.5 kpa 0V
Note: To find this numbers cost me aroung half year. Denso doesn't like to share this info.

9. Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor. Can be taken from CBR600. You can measure it by your own, but I have following number if you too lazy to do this.
IAT Sensor
- 16°C: 16060 Om
+24°C: 2200 Om
+100°C: 155 Om

10. Check how're you going to contol idle. Sometime it's valve, in modern bikes stepper motor does use. Keep in mind that Microsquirt doesn't use stepper motor controller and you need to fabricate ones or PM me and give you a contact of goog guys who able to fabricate this for you for the good price. Also PWM idle valve can be use without any problem.

11. O2 sensor.
- Narrow band O2 sensor can be use dirrectly, but the output of this sensor doesn't allow you to get accurate measrements.
- Wideband 02 sensor. The cheapest with appropriate quality is LC-1 from Innovate - http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php. Don't be very parsimonious and buy new one from ebay. And also you can connect AFR gauge near your speedo.

- Knock sensor and controller. It's not required, but better to have one if you're going to use bike at full power to avoid detonations. I'm using KnockTek (http://www.extraefi.co.uk/Misc_products.htm). It's support 2-sensor, able to connet to microsquirt and work with CBR600 3-pin knock sensor.

- Ignition module: For the Microsquirt you need ignition module, because Microsquirt V3 support only logical output. They offer following one: http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/quad ... p-481.html, but other also can be use.

- Coils: You can stock coils, but to get hottest spart you can use coils from CBR600RR. It's individual COP-coils (Coils-On-Plug).

- EFI controller: And at least you need EFI controller. You can choose any Microsquirt/MegaSquirt, Accel DFI, AEM. BigStuff3, Edelbrock, EFI Technology, Electromotive, FAST, Haltech, Holley, Hydra, Link, Motec, RetroTek, SDS or maybe other that I don't know. Some of them is better, some worse, some cheaper, some expensive - some support sequential squirting, some not. So, find the community and ask. I'm choose Microsquirt due to size, price and support. If I have more space I would choose MegaSquirt-III, because it supports ignition, knock, sequential and etc. For the motorcycle it is not really mandatory, but if you like full package buy MegaSquirt, but Microsquirt is cool as well and both will cover 90% (or ever 120%) of you requrements.

If you have any questions, please, PM me and I will response into the thread.

[PARUS]

One thing I recommend to buy is JimStim Wheel Simulator. It saves you a lot of time in garage and find proper setting for your installation - http://jbperf.com/JimStim/index.html

[L.Svedberg]

Excellent!!! Thanks mate!

/Lasse

[PARUS]

Excellent!!! Thanks mate!

/Lasse

You're welcome. If you have canburator for now - I would recommend to setup ingnitions with Microsquirt first and when all run well, setup EFI on the second stage.

[L.Svedberg]

Excellent!!! Thanks mate!

/Lasse

You're welcome. If you have canburator for now - I would recommend to setup ingnitions with Microsquirt first and when all run well, setup EFI on the second stage.

Good point!