Tech reg/rec Q - looking for facts not conjecture

[Variablevalves suck]

I don't know, I'd say no but will be closer than the Yam one people fit as that's a bit of a beast.
I fit them to my Suzuki's and although the F008 is a bit bigger than stock its possible to fit it in the standard position,
I'd say the oe v4 is near identical to the suzi for size so you should be ok.

Some reading, pictures are mixing but lots of info regarding reg/recs.
The sv guys got it bad and get through them like fat boys n icecream.

http://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106041

[newtothis]

The way that the electrical system runs always strikes me as odd, the generator being maxed out with it's output shorted to earth most of the time just seems wrong. Both the windings and the reg get a hard life, the field effect ones might be a bit more able to cope than the old diode type but essentially they're both getting cooked.
The new series type regulators seem an ideal solution as they disconnect the generator windings to lose excess volts - the only problem being all the ones I could find data on were much larger.

I ended up using an SH640 when mine died for two reasons:
1. it's similarly rated to the original
2. I robbed it off my other bike
The 'core' potted section with the circuit is about the same size but the finned area is much larger, a groove dremeled into the back of the fins allows it so sit flat on the mounting plate after a little fettling of the bolt holes.


I can't recall exactly where I found these two statements, it might even have been Shindengen's own website as they had electrical rating details:

Shunt - the Stator always has to apply maximum generated current - when the R/R is in regulation it shorts across the winding to 'shunt' current away from the load directly back to the stator. In an SCR (OEM) Shunt Regulator the SCRs get extremely hot and they ultimately burn out if that heat is not adequately cooled - that is why OEM needs to up front directly in the cooling path.
Because of the way it operates, if you reduce the system load (e.g. turn off the lights) the R/R will actually have to shunt MORE current and will run hotter - but the stator load is the same regardless of whether the current is going to the load, or back through the SCR's.

Series - this is fundamentally different in that in a Series design, instead of diverting (shunting) excess current back to the stator to control the output voltage, the regulation works by interrupting the current path to the load. This means that the Regulator ONLY supplies current demanded by the load itself, and no excess current parallel path through a shunt. So the net result is that this type of Regulator is MUCH kinder on the stator because the stator is always supplying much less current! So the stator does not get so hot and its reliability increases significantly.
The fact that it has SCR's is not quite so problematic as in the Shunt application, because they are flowing less current and for a shorter duration. So they will not get as hot as when used in shunt mode.

[Neosophist]

The way that the electrical system runs always strikes me as odd, the generator being maxed out with it's output shorted to earth most of the time just seems wrong. Both the windings and the reg get a hard life, the field effect ones might be a bit more able to cope than the old diode type but essentially they're both getting cooked.

this is simply not true and comes from a general mis-understanding about how shunt type regulators and permanent magnet generators work. i think a lot of downrating shunt type regulators has been done, especially by people selling "upgrades". once you know how a shunt type regulator really alters a permenant magnet genreator then it isnt so strange and doesnt really cuase such a hard time as you first belive.

the bikes system does always move full amps but the actual shunting part doesnt consume as much energy as you think, its not like its always shunting 350 watts of power, the actual shunt value is much smaller (and yes this small shunt draw will generate heat and rob some hp etc but its quite small compared to thining its shunting vast reserve of energy)

this is becuase the permanange magent geneator always shifts the same amount of amps regardless of the voltage, spinning it up only geneates more voltage, unlike the field driven generatos of say a car.

shorting out the mains socket in your house will generate much heat and fire but shorting out the coils in a permananet magnet generator is much less becuase of the design of the system. shoring out the permanent generator alows the power to flow freely back to the generator with very little to no resistance, becuase of this there is no voltage drop and no heat / power genreated like if you stick a screwdriver across the mains of your house.

shunt diodes themselves consume a volt or so of energy and you have sevearl of them so the acutal power disappated during the shutning cycle is probably about 35 - 65 watts, hence the heat.

On this point mosfet is probbaly marginannly better if you want to save a small amount of energy.

The actual reasons for charging system failutre are usually old battery over-stressing the charging system, poor generator to regulator connections causing overload of stator, other wiring connection failures causing system overload.

the acutal shunt design is fine, compared to modern mosfet is may be slightly inferoir, but nothing like a lot of sellers of "upgrade" packages would have you belive.

mosfet will probably be the way to go eventually as its doenst have even as much losses as an scr shutn regulator, but the actual shunt system and permantnent magnet generator is complicated system which many people mistakenly believe that the shunt is always wasting a lot of energy

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/show ... regulators

this thread seems to be on the right path

[manicguitarist]

Ah! That's the info I didn't have - the generator are current sources not voltage sources. It all makes sense now.

Does anyone know the max output of the RVF charging system? Or will that be in the Haynes manual?

[Variablevalves suck]

Should be simple to work.
You got 12v and the main fuse for lights is probably 30amps so a basic max is easy to work out.

Like I said main problems are bad wires especially at the connectors, best thing you can do is the water proof connection mod.
I use the same mod on my radio control boat, had it melt the stock connection but with a sealed one it doesn't even get warm.

[Neosophist]

Ah! That's the info I didn't have - the generator are current sources not voltage sources. It all makes sense now.

Does anyone know the max output of the RVF charging system? Or will that be in the Haynes manual?

vfr/rvf stator is rated to 350watts

[manicguitarist]

Thanks for that.


M