water in motor, problem???

[Jac-al]

hi, my bikes busy gettin resprayed, so i used the time to do the carbs.
today after fittin carbs, there was no spark so i took out the plugs and they were wet, turned it over with plug out and theres a whole lot of water comin out where the plug screws in. im not an expert but that isnt right, is it?? could my motor be in its moor(SA TERM FOR FUKT)?? im really worried

[speedy231278]

Are you absolutely sure it's water? If coolant is getting into the bores, then it's most likely that the head gasket has failed. You haven't somehow managed to flood the engine with petrol while tinkering with the carbs? By all accounts, head gasket failure on these bikes is very rare.

[Jac-al]

definately not petrol, could be coolant not sure. my bike got bumped and fell over last week but i picked it up within 5min, could that of done somethin? the thing is i rode it to panelbeaters and it was fine, what other symptoms would a blown head gasket give and is it serious??

[thunderace]

Do you have foxes in your part of SA?

Sorry, not strictly helpful

[speedy231278]

definately not petrol, could be coolant not sure. my bike got bumped and fell over last week but i picked it up within 5min, could that of done somethin? the thing is i rode it to panelbeaters and it was fine, what other symptoms would a blown head gasket give and is it serious??

If it's gone or going, you'll notice lots more water vapour than normal come out the exhaust when the bike is cold, and probably when warm too. Also, you'll need to top it up more frequently than normal (if you ever even need to). Plus, if it's a bad leak, it'll get into the oil, and you'll end up with coffee coloured gunge. In bad cases, the leak can go both ways, and you end up with said gunge in the cooling system, and it's a nightmare to get out. Go on Google and search for 'K series head gasket failure' seeing as Rover K series engines are especially prone (guess what is in my missus car? ). In short, if you suspect HGF, it's best to prove the situation one way or the other. If it has failed, a minor weep won't cause much if any trouble, save the effort of inspecting the heads, cylinder block and the gasket to ascertain exactly where the leak came from. However, if it's failed and you don't sort it, it will only get worse, and the worse it gets, the more it'll cost to sort out!

[Jac-al]

ok but how do i diagnose where it came from and if it is hgf?

[speedy231278]

It's all a bit of a pain in the backside to be honest. It depends on where the leak is, and how serious. As I said before, if coolant is getting into the engine, over time it will work it's way into the oil, and it turns into coffee coloured gunge. However, when the engine is running, depending on where the leak is, and how big, you can end up with it forcing oil into the coolant, and you'll get coffee coloured scum in the coolant. It's easy to detect this on most cars because they circulate the coolant through a header tank where you top it up, so it turns the tank manky. On NCs, the tank is used in a slightly different manner and therefore is fairly unlikely to show the signs.

I think a way of testing that some people use, again mainly on cars, is to pressurise the cooling system when cold, and measure the pressure. If it drops significantly, it's because coolant is escaping. You can also do a 'sniff test', which in essence is to see if the coolant smells like the inside of a combustion chamber - the fuel/air mix and exhaust gas is under a higher pressure than the coolant so some forces it's way into the coolant through the same place the coolant is leaking in. In fact, the coolant probably only goes in when the engine is cold anyway.

Of course, you can lose coolant into the engine if you have a crack somewhere next to one of the coolant channels too, but that's probably rarer than a head gasket going. I've never heard of either to be honest, save for one poster here who rebuilt the engine using pattern HGs and one failed almost immediately! The absolute only way you'll find out for sure if the gasket has gone is to take the head off and inspect it. The signs are usually fairly obvious as you'd be able to see a break or distortion in the gasket, and most likely the head or cylinder block will have a discolouration where the fluid has passed through, and where the contents of the cylinder have gone the other way. Also, when the head is off you can check it and the cylinders and block for cracks.

You want to be absolutely 100% certain that coolant is getting into the engine before deciding to take drastic action like stripping it as it takes a hell of a lot of time and effort just to get to the stage where you can get the heads off, and the gaskets are pretty pricey. DON'T use pattern ones unless you want a better than even chance of doing the job again very soon. See if a friendly garage will do a pressure test or analyse the coolant for combustion products.

Has the bike been running hotter than normal?
Has it been hard to start?
Has it been running poorly when cold or idled poorly when cold?
Has there been excessive steam from the exhaust when the engine is warming up?

All of the above can point to HGF, but as I keep saying, it's seemingly a very rare event on bikes like yours.

[NGneer]

turned it over with plug out and theres a whole lot of water comin out where the plug screws in.

Jac-al, if there is that much water getting into the bore the give away would be white smoke (steam efectivly) from the exhaust.

Before you jump in and pull the heads of, it might be worth doing an oil change (check for tell tale coffe colour), topping up the coolant system and marking the expansion tank with the level and take it for a steady run. Keep an eye out for white smoke and on the coolant level.

Any sign of goo in the oil when you do th echange, or white smoke / disapearing coolant when using it and it sounds like a head gasket change.

Look on the bright side....Its a good chance to check the valve clearances while your in there if you do end up changing the head gaskets

[Jac-al]

thanks guys, i got none if those symptoms. well at least not yet. ive just realised after puttin on my new kit a buddy of mine did a little work like the rear brake reservoir AND coolant reservoir to fit it in with the kit and ive noticed theres no overflow pipe on the coolant reservoir. could the pressure from that have forced coolant into the motor?

[Neosophist]

thanks guys, i got none if those symptoms. well at least not yet. ive just realised after puttin on my new kit a buddy of mine did a little work like the rear brake reservoir AND coolant reservoir to fit it in with the kit and ive noticed theres no overflow pipe on the coolant reservoir. could the pressure from that have forced coolant into the motor?

No chance, youll blow the raadior cap before that happens.

Are you sure you dont have a leaky carb and it was petrol?

Id do as above.

Drop the oil and change it, noting if theres any water in the oil.

Cehck the coolant is filled up in the rad and expansion bottle.

Go for a steady ride paying attention to temeprature.

After the bike has cooled down inspect the coolant level and oil.