• Would a H4 HID conversion kit work on NC24

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:41 pm**

Would a H4 HID conversion kit work on a NC24 or would it burn the wiring out?

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:26 pm**

please dont do it, there ilegal and will dazzle people especially with 1989 glass lenses,

the police are clamping down on dodgy xenons

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:29 pm**

rickyb_dj wrote:please dont do it, there ilegal and will dazzle people especially with 1989 glass lenses,

the police are clamping down on dodgy xenons

i got a pure white H4 in there which is just a bit brighter, but liked the idea of a proper xenon bulb with the 400v invertor etc (used to be good on skodas when i worked on them)

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:55 pm**

chownsy wrote:
rickyb_dj wrote:please dont do it, there ilegal and will dazzle people especially with 1989 glass lenses,

the police are clamping down on dodgy xenons
i got a pure white H4 in there which is just a bit brighter, but liked the idea of a proper xenon bulb with the 400v invertor etc (used to be good on skodas when i worked on them)

to have a legal HID conversion you need the following

projection headlights, with clear lens, not frosted or refracted glass lens, that have to be HID rated and E marked
self leveling adjustors,
high pressure head light washers,

the plod are big on these at the min, and in staffs this month is "operation octane" aimed at bikers for ilegal mods etc.

i dont appriciate being dazzled, let alone by bad illegal headlights i have shit eyes as it is, my vision and sight is perfect but i have problems with light.

dont take it as me ranting by the way ive been there and done ilegal HID's never got caught but i realised how dangerous they were. after i started seeing other fake hid upgrades,

i even had self leveling motors, and projector headlights, just didnt have the E mark for HID or washers. (on my car btw)

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:04 pm**

Aside from the fact there illegal, invalidate your insurance, piss off everyone else on the road the light they actually produce is awful. So while you think that they make your view better they are actually making things worse.

It is like fog-lights on a car.. they light up the ground infront of you and your eyes focus to it.. they dont' highlight the distance which is what matters... most of these HID 'kits' light up the floor and the sky.. not where you need it.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... sions.html

Have a read of that

Then watch this.

HID's focus well because they use a projector housing not a reflector housing. (as you'll know if you read the article)

You can buy HID bulbs complete with projectors, hack apart your existing headlight, silicon in the projector unit and get it some-what decent. I've seen projector converted lamps and they are really good.

But, they won't be E marked like your original lights and if your ever in a bad crash where the insurance investigate you wont' be legal.

(A friend who was in a bad accident a few years ago was told by the police they knew his headlamps were on as they could tell by how much the filament had stretched after the impact (headlights were smashed to bits) beucase the heat makes them softer... so i'm sure they'd notice you had HID's in there.. it isn't just scaremongering)

Reflector housings do not focus the light well.

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:05 am**

chownsy wrote:Would a H4 HID conversion kit work on a NC24 or would it burn the wiring out?

They actually consume less current than standard lights, the one I fitted comes with it's own loom and protection.

rickyb_dj wrote:[please dont do it, there ilegal and will dazzle people especially with 1989 glass lenses, the police are clamping down on dodgy xenons

They are (relatively) new technology so the legislation that's in place isn't applicable, so until they are challenged in the courts or new legislation comes into force they are neither legal nor illegal. On my NC24 there is no more spill than the original crap H4, the cut off is crisp but the output is so superior.

rickyb_dj wrote:to have a legal HID conversion you need the following

projection headlights, with clear lens, not frosted or refracted glass lens, that have to be HID rated and E marked
self leveling adjustors,(sic)
high pressure head light washers,

That's true if you're driving a 4 wheeled vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes - so not bikes, I give you BMWs (bikes) which have neither self-levelling adjusters nor high pressure washers, yet are available on the forecourt, as for the projector lenses, I'll repeat what I said above about legislation. It's a question of risk assessment, for a point of view of will I get nicked or won't I

Neo, I can't disagree with anything that you say or reference, all I will point out is the continual use of 'some' (so that's not all of them then) and the incessant mixing up with auto-mobile legislation. I pride myself on looking into and researching before I commit to buying something 'different' and testing it afterwards, I'm happy with my choice, as I said above it's not legal, but by definition it is not illegal either. The lamp unit provides far, far more light than the best 'legal' alternative and the beam shape, spill and pattern is almost identical, just much brighter with more penetration, it's safer for me IMHO.

The thing I do find most worrying though is that with a single light source supplying both hi and dipped beams (it's one of the servo-ed telescopic ones) is you have no fall back if it fails, that means disconnecting the HID loom and bulb unit and replacing a standard H4 possibly at night

Richard, you'll obviously have to make your own mind up on this, but I've had mine in place since Oct '08, so it's gone through two winters of use (two summers too as I always drive on dipped beams) two MoTs and hasn't drawn any unwanted attention/flashes/abuse. Oh yes, I did inform my insures who made no comment at all, positive nor negative.

Ian

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:06 am**

regardless of all said

the problem is dazzling, would you be happy if everyone drove around with high beams on?

because incorrectly fitted bulbs with incorrect design of fitting will cause scatter.

regardless of legal or non legal it should simple comedown to courtesy and other road users safety.

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:10 pm**

I agree entirely Ricky, but as I said the spill/scatter, call it what you will, on my NC24 is no worse than as original, the pattern is all but identical as is the cut off height, but it is far brighter and provides far better visibility. I can of course only speak for my installation and I'm sure you'll find many poorly fitted ones, had mine been like that and I couldn't make it work properly then I'd have taken it off.

Again as I said earlier, I've now run this system for almost two years (I ride all year round BTW) and haven't had any ill-reaction, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Of course now I've actually written this I'm almost guaranteed to get a 'pull', if so and I can't get it to comply with any imposed requirements then again it'll go.

I suppose the point I was making is that there's a lot of ill-informed 'experts' (no, I'm not pointing fingers at any contributors here) on both sides of this discussion who might well put people off doing a perfectly do-able mod, or indeed talk them into an ill-conceived one. But at the end of the day if it works well and effectively (caveat being not upsetting other road users) why not go ahead.

Ian

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:59 pm**

Not being funny but you cannot get a proper focussed light source using a reflector headlight instead of a proper projector unit, no matter how good 'your' installation may be.

If this were possible manufactureres wouldn't have spent so much money developing projecotor units.

You can see by design they are fundamentally totally different systems. It is like saying you can put a Square peg in a round hole but can't comment on anyone elses attempts.

The only reliable way to get a good HID light source (that will pass an MOT's beam alignemnt check, not that it makes it anymore legal) is to retrofit a projector unit.

But at the end of the day if it works well and effectively (caveat being not upsetting other road users) why not go ahead.

Phone your insurance company and ask them if they will still cover you for using a retrofitted HID kit and see what they say.. if by some miracle they say they will get a statement in writing, so if you do have an accident and they decide to say your insurance is invalid you have something to fall back on.

Oh and if that isn't enough.

The Department of Transport don't agree either.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlampsFact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlampsDecember 2006In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
Telephone: 020 7944 2078
Fax: 020 7944 2196
Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk

PS: I've played with HID projectors, HID bulbs hacked into H4 unit's.

You can just read the bit in Bold if you want to skip the waffle.

Regardless of bikes or cars though it is illegal to convert headlights, this in turn will invalidate your insurance. You only need to pop over on the chav-cruisers websites and ask for their experiences of crashing with HID kits in only to find out their insurance is invalid so they end up with no money to replace their shitbox.

Oh and the BMW bikes have something in the suspension that levels the lamps out.. I can't recall now as i'm at work but I did read it in the leaflet my old man brought home for one of them...

Like I said originally, i've seen some fantastic results with people building in projector units to their headlights but it is quite expensive..

Good H4 like some Phillips Xtreme bulbs are totally legal, cheap (£17 for 2!) and really bright!! I use them in both the ZXR and the VFR and do a lot of nighttime country lane riding...

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:29 pm**

Neosophist wrote:. It is like saying you can put a Square peg in a round hole

You can do this, Watched it on an episode of QI :)

Would a H4 HID conversion kit work on NC24

Would a H4 HID conversion kit work on NC24

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