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Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:33 pm
by death46
Oh right i didn't think the vacuum pipe was so small. Its a translucent tube coming from underneath the petrol tank, and like i said, is of perfect size/reach to connect to this nozzle, i'll try it again later tonight.

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:05 pm
by Neosophist
death46 wrote:Oh right i didn't think the vacuum pipe was so small. Its a translucent tube coming from underneath the petrol tank, and like i said, is of perfect size/reach to connect to this nozzle, i'll try it again later tonight.
Thats the one.. it sucks a small rubber diaphram open from the suction created by the engine so doesn't need to be small.

The pipe is originally black.. if it's see through then its' the wrong type of pipe.. most likely to be aquarium tubing, which is to soft after heat from the engine.

Try it conneted but best to get the proper hose

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:42 pm
by death46
Well there's a nozzle on the front left cylinder plus the rear left cylinder, the one on the front is blocked off. The rear nozzle seems to blow air out whilst the front nozzle seems to suck air in, should it be connected to the front left cylinder or the rear left?

I have found another problem as well, fuel tap gasket is leaking so the tank cannot pressurize anyway... There is a new tap coming in the post.

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:36 am
by Neosophist
death46 wrote:Well there's a nozzle on the front left cylinder plus the rear left cylinder, the one on the front is blocked off. The rear nozzle seems to blow air out whilst the front nozzle seems to suck air in, should it be connected to the front left cylinder or the rear left?

I have found another problem as well, fuel tap gasket is leaking so the tank cannot pressurize anyway... There is a new tap coming in the post.
The tank isn't pressurised.

But I said the fuel tap was leaking anyhow.

BOTH of these take-offs from the cylinder suck.

If you look at the rear-left where the frame wraps around the cylinder you'll see a take-off point there (on the side of the cylinder.. it's hidden by the frame and fiddly to get to (take a picture if you are unsure)

Any take-offs in the 'v' of the engine are from carb-balancers and shouldn't be there... there usually blanked off with screws and washers, but if there not leaking they are ok. there are 4 take-off points 'in' the V for balancing the carbs.

Sounds like the bikes been fettled a bit the wrong way.. not to worry will sort it.

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:58 pm
by death46
Ahh cheers for explaining. Does the vacuum hose connect to the take-off point behind the frame or not then? I know exactly which nozzle you are talking about as it's that well concealed i only noticed it the other day.

About the faulty gasket, it was leaking anyhow and so surely that affects the vacuum effect of the fuel tank? My bike is definitely being starved of something, and i think it's petrol. As soon as the tap arrives i'll install it and see what happens from there,
thanks :pray:.

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:24 am
by Neosophist
death46 wrote:Ahh cheers for explaining. Does the vacuum hose connect to the take-off point behind the frame or not then? I know exactly which nozzle you are talking about as it's that well concealed i only noticed it the other day.

About the faulty gasket, it was leaking anyhow and so surely that affects the vacuum effect of the fuel tank? My bike is definitely being starved of something, and i think it's petrol. As soon as the tap arrives i'll install it and see what happens from there,
thanks :pray:.
It fits to the one behind the frame thats well concealed.

The other 4 take-offs are usually blanked off by screws and washers... as long as they are not leaking air then all is good leaving them whatever way they are (if somebody has fitted the adapters that let you connect pipes to them make sure they don't leak air and are blanked off, you fit these when balaning carbs but usually remove them.)

Vaccum tap:

I'll explain how this works so you get an understanding.

The fuel tank and tap is a normal bog standard tank.. think of it as just a giant can with an on / off / reserve switch.

When 'On' you can empty out 3/4 of the tank... when in reserve you can empty out all the tank including the last 1/4 that you can't empty out when in On mode.

The only difference is the 'vaccumn' part.

Image

Here you can see a picture of the diaphram inside the tap.

Even if you have your valve set to On or Reserve the diaphram (rubber disc in the picture) springs shut when the engine isnt running and closes the fuel off. This is a safety feature, so even if you leave the fuel turned 'on' and say your carbs spring a leak, the whole tank isn't going to empty itself.

When you crank the engine over it creates a vacuum (suck) to draw in petrol and air... the little vaccum pipe takes a small amount of this suction and pulls on the other side of the diaphram to suck it open, which so long as your tap is turned to on / reserve you'll get petrol comming out of the tap!

The problems with this system are.

1. Vaccum Hose

Over time the heat makes it brittle.. it can split / collapse / break off all together... if this becomes disconnected then you won't have any suction to open the diaphram in the tap and no fuel will flow and your bike will stop working! (i've had this happen at 70mph on a motorway! luckily my first point was to inspect the vaccum hose and see a big split had appeared! some electrical tape got me home till I could replace it!)

2. Diaphram

The diaphram in the tap is made of rubber. If it splits or perishes then either the tap will leak fuel out of the vaccum air nipple (the spare nipple on the tap.. this allows the sealed diaphram to move) or the fuel wont flow properly at all.

The hose is obviously cheaper and eaiser to repair.

If you have a busted diaphram you can mod the fuel tap to not use it (remember to turn fuel off when bike is not beign used as the safety feature will be bypassed)

http://www.akhara.com/nc30/fueltapmod/

You can read about it here on Mikes page.

If your diaphram is ok and it's just the vaccumn hose then make sure you replace that with proper good quality heat-reistatnt hose.

4mm inner diameter is good.. aquarium 'air' tubing gets too soft with heat. (i've tried) David Silvers sells Vaccumn hose cheap.

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:15 pm
by death46
Wow, i finally understand how it works now :D. And i finally understand why my bike isn't running :D. I have fitted the tap but this also leaks slightly, hopefully the rubbers will expand before i need to use it. I checked earlier today and it looked ok, no leaking. If this tap is also faulty, i'll look into modding it. Thanks a lot.

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:30 am
by death46
Just wondering as well if the fuel tap off an NC30 would fit my bike, i know the NC21 tap and NC24 are the same, but my guess is the NC30 has a different configuration?

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:53 pm
by Neosophist
Totally different tap.

Won't fit

Re: Major NC21 running issues.

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:41 pm
by death46
Yeah, this has got to be the hardest part for a bike to find in the world. I have been searching now for days to no avail.