g-force performance wrote:

theoutsider wrote:There is a reason why the subframes on bikes are all steel or ali,because it needs a lot of strenght.If you do your in carbon it may hold your weight without actually riding the bike,but in the first bend it will snap like them cheap pack of crisps.About the front stay I`m not sure if it needs strenght but there is no point in making one,it won`t make the bike go any quicker,and the standard one is not that heavy.Good luck anyway but I hope I won`t buy your bike on ebay because you died or something

I beg your pardon Outsider, but that was a really off-base post. If you pick up any magazine regarding Formula-1 cars, you will see that the majority of the chassis parts, including the steering arms can be made from CF. Looking at the MotoGP bikes, many of the rear tail sections are one-piece (monocoque) designs that are all CF seat/tail section combos. The old Aprillia 250GP racer very successfully used this design for many years. Now let's go to aircraft. That's where CF was pioneered. Many aircraft are made from over 70% CF including main airframe components and severe structural components.

The reason that CF is not found in production bikes is because it is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE and requires very expensive machines (vacuum furnaces and autoclaves). It would be cost prohibitive to make parts for a production bike and be able to sell it to the average customer. Bikes like the $250,000 Brittan have mostl CF parts because that's what the bike is about. CF is actually stronger than Steel, which is stronger than Aluminum, which is stronger than Magnesium (which some subframes are made from). It's also the lightest of the bunch. But....you do have to know what you are doing. THAT'S the tricky part of working with CF. You really have to understand mechanical engineering and the properties of CF to know how to best make the parts.

That said, we are looking to work with a "proper" CF shop to make a tank, seat section, airbox, front fairing stay, and any other parts that we can to lighten the bike. (to add to my rebuttle to your post, the upper fairing bracket can benefit the bike's turn-to-turn transition because the weight is removed from up high and forward of the bikes CG). If anyone is interested in teaming with us to get these parts developed, please let us know. I have a few CF experts in mind here, one being a former aerospace CF expert.

Cheers,

Mike Norman
G-Force Engine Development
http://www.mngforce.com

g-force performance wrote:Lasse:

Very nice!!!I just me be on board for something like that. It's basically what we were after. The only problem is we were hoping to retain the Tyga RC211V tail piece as we love that shape. Tyga did an awesome job on it too. What are your thoughts on merging the two patterns?

Mike Norman
G-Force Engine Development
http://www.mngforce.com

micpec wrote:@Lasse, that looks very nice. Keep up the good work!

When do you expect the final results in the CF fabrics all ready for testing on your bike?

tygapaul wrote:Leaving aside the idea of a carbon subframe, there is another issue with regard to a carbon self supporting seat unit and that is the practical one. For most of the riders of 400s there are still a lot of electrical components (battery, coil, regulator, CDI) that need to be housed under the seat cowling and the easiest way to access them is to remove the seat cowling to reveal all the components so they can be worked on. GP bikes are designed not to have any components under the seat cowling (traditionally the home of the exhaust) and all the electrical parts are located near the frame or up front.

g-force performance wrote:

theoutsider wrote:There is a reason why the subframes on bikes are all steel or ali,because it needs a lot of strenght.If you do your in carbon it may hold your weight without actually riding the bike,but in the first bend it will snap like them cheap pack of crisps.About the front stay I`m not sure if it needs strenght but there is no point in making one,it won`t make the bike go any quicker,and the standard one is not that heavy.Good luck anyway but I hope I won`t buy your bike on ebay because you died or something

I beg your pardon Outsider, but that was a really off-base post. If you pick up any magazine regarding Formula-1 cars, you will see that the majority of the chassis parts, including the steering arms can be made from CF. Looking at the MotoGP bikes, many of the rear tail sections are one-piece (monocoque) designs that are all CF seat/tail section combos. The old Aprillia 250GP racer very successfully used this design for many years. Now let's go to aircraft. That's where CF was pioneered. Many aircraft are made from over 70% CF including main airframe components and severe structural components.

The reason that CF is not found in production bikes is because it is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE and requires very expensive machines (vacuum furnaces and autoclaves). It would be cost prohibitive to make parts for a production bike and be able to sell it to the average customer. Bikes like the $250,000 Brittan have mostl CF parts because that's what the bike is about. CF is actually stronger than Steel, which is stronger than Aluminum, which is stronger than Magnesium (which some subframes are made from). It's also the lightest of the bunch. But....you do have to know what you are doing. THAT'S the tricky part of working with CF. You really have to understand mechanical engineering and the properties of CF to know how to best make the parts.

That said, we are looking to work with a "proper" CF shop to make a tank, seat section, airbox, front fairing stay, and any other parts that we can to lighten the bike. (to add to my rebuttle to your post, the upper fairing bracket can benefit the bike's turn-to-turn transition because the weight is removed from up high and forward of the bikes CG). If anyone is interested in teaming with us to get these parts developed, please let us know. I have a few CF experts in mind here, one being a former aerospace CF expert.

Cheers,

Mike Norman
G-Force Engine Development
http://www.mngforce.com