Carbon fibre front stay and subframe

[L.Svedberg]

There is a reason why the subframes on bikes are all steel or ali,because it needs a lot of strenght.If you do your in carbon it may hold your weight without actually riding the bike,but in the first bend it will snap like them cheap pack of crisps.About the front stay I`m not sure if it needs strenght but there is no point in making one,it won`t make the bike go any quicker,and the standard one is not that heavy.Good luck anyway but I hope I won`t buy your bike on ebay because you died or something

I beg your pardon Outsider, but that was a really off-base post. If you pick up any magazine regarding Formula-1 cars, you will see that the majority of the chassis parts, including the steering arms can be made from CF. Looking at the MotoGP bikes, many of the rear tail sections are one-piece (monocoque) designs that are all CF seat/tail section combos. The old Aprillia 250GP racer very successfully used this design for many years. Now let's go to aircraft. That's where CF was pioneered. Many aircraft are made from over 70% CF including main airframe components and severe structural components.

The reason that CF is not found in production bikes is because it is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE and requires very expensive machines (vacuum furnaces and autoclaves). It would be cost prohibitive to make parts for a production bike and be able to sell it to the average customer. Bikes like the $250,000 Brittan have mostl CF parts because that's what the bike is about. CF is actually stronger than Steel, which is stronger than Aluminum, which is stronger than Magnesium (which some subframes are made from). It's also the lightest of the bunch. But....you do have to know what you are doing. THAT'S the tricky part of working with CF. You really have to understand mechanical engineering and the properties of CF to know how to best make the parts.

That said, we are looking to work with a "proper" CF shop to make a tank, seat section, airbox, front fairing stay, and any other parts that we can to lighten the bike. (to add to my rebuttle to your post, the upper fairing bracket can benefit the bike's turn-to-turn transition because the weight is removed from up high and forward of the bikes CG). If anyone is interested in teaming with us to get these parts developed, please let us know. I have a few CF experts in mind here, one being a former aerospace CF expert.

Cheers,

Mike Norman
G-Force Engine Development
http://www.mngforce.com

Hi Dude!

I'm just about finished making a plug, which is to be sent off to an automotive racing chassis company specialized in making CF frames for race cars. They will use the plug for mouldmaking, and fabrication of the finished part. It will be a combined seat unit/tank cover, also serving as upper part of the airbox. The part will attach to the frame by means of four mounting lugs welded onto the main frame spars. Good fun!

/Lasse

[g-force performance]

Lasse:

Very nice!!!I just me be on board for something like that. It's basically what we were after. The only problem is we were hoping to retain the Tyga RC211V tail piece as we love that shape. Tyga did an awesome job on it too. What are your thoughts on merging the two patterns?

Mike Norman
G-Force Engine Development
http://www.mngforce.com

[RonniB]

Lasse,

how much do you think the finished seat/cover will weigh? (my guess is just around 2kg, maybe a little under)

Beautiful work by the way, good to see that you put several functions into it.

Ronni

[alexwitham]

Lasse: That is truthfully fantastic craftsmanship.

[L.Svedberg]

Lasse:

Very nice!!!I just me be on board for something like that. It's basically what we were after. The only problem is we were hoping to retain the Tyga RC211V tail piece as we love that shape. Tyga did an awesome job on it too. What are your thoughts on merging the two patterns?

Mike Norman
G-Force Engine Development
http://www.mngforce.com

My thoughts are, to put it shortly: No Way! I am not at all naturally talented in this designing/shaping business, and it's sickeningly hard and sometimes tedious work for me. I simply haven't got the patience to start all over once more.

But of course I am all for it if you'd start doing something similar to this! Always nice to see and learn from others!

Ronni:

I have no real target weight for the part, but I have seen the work these guys have made previously, and I'm sure they'll make it every bit as light as possible, but as I said when I contacted them about the project;

First comes strength, second weight, and third comes the surface finish of the part. We'll just have to wait and see!

/Lasse

[micpec]

@Lasse, that looks very nice. Keep up the good work!

When do you expect the final results in the CF fabrics all ready for testing on your bike?

[L.Svedberg]

@Lasse, that looks very nice. Keep up the good work!

When do you expect the final results in the CF fabrics all ready for testing on your bike?

Thanks mate! Considering my rate of progress with this bike so far, I'd say...in a year or two

[venom51]

Leaving aside the idea of a carbon subframe, there is another issue with regard to a carbon self supporting seat unit and that is the practical one. For most of the riders of 400s there are still a lot of electrical components (battery, coil, regulator, CDI) that need to be housed under the seat cowling and the easiest way to access them is to remove the seat cowling to reveal all the components so they can be worked on. GP bikes are designed not to have any components under the seat cowling (traditionally the home of the exhaust) and all the electrical parts are located near the frame or up front.

Nothing left in the tail of mine. 4 bolts and the whole tail section is out of the way. Everything has been relocated to the front and underneath the bike. Of course all that's left is the CDI, quickshifter, Voltage Regulator and the tiny little battery. Everthing else is gone.

[vfrman]

There is a reason why the subframes on bikes are all steel or ali,because it needs a lot of strenght.If you do your in carbon it may hold your weight without actually riding the bike,but in the first bend it will snap like them cheap pack of crisps.About the front stay I`m not sure if it needs strenght but there is no point in making one,it won`t make the bike go any quicker,and the standard one is not that heavy.Good luck anyway but I hope I won`t buy your bike on ebay because you died or something

I beg your pardon Outsider, but that was a really off-base post. If you pick up any magazine regarding Formula-1 cars, you will see that the majority of the chassis parts, including the steering arms can be made from CF. Looking at the MotoGP bikes, many of the rear tail sections are one-piece (monocoque) designs that are all CF seat/tail section combos. The old Aprillia 250GP racer very successfully used this design for many years. Now let's go to aircraft. That's where CF was pioneered. Many aircraft are made from over 70% CF including main airframe components and severe structural components.

The reason that CF is not found in production bikes is because it is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE and requires very expensive machines (vacuum furnaces and autoclaves). It would be cost prohibitive to make parts for a production bike and be able to sell it to the average customer. Bikes like the $250,000 Brittan have mostl CF parts because that's what the bike is about. CF is actually stronger than Steel, which is stronger than Aluminum, which is stronger than Magnesium (which some subframes are made from). It's also the lightest of the bunch. But....you do have to know what you are doing. THAT'S the tricky part of working with CF. You really have to understand mechanical engineering and the properties of CF to know how to best make the parts.

That said, we are looking to work with a "proper" CF shop to make a tank, seat section, airbox, front fairing stay, and any other parts that we can to lighten the bike. (to add to my rebuttle to your post, the upper fairing bracket can benefit the bike's turn-to-turn transition because the weight is removed from up high and forward of the bikes CG). If anyone is interested in teaming with us to get these parts developed, please let us know. I have a few CF experts in mind here, one being a former aerospace CF expert.

Cheers,

Mike Norman
G-Force Engine Development
http://www.mngforce.com

Mike, you forgot to mention the Ducati MotoGP bike, which has a CF frame.

[benny]

Any progress on this by anyone other than swansea?