660 stroker rods

[nynoah]

Hello all, I have been a lurker on here for a while. But for those who make it over to the FZRarchives (sister bike site) I have been on there going on a decade now. I have an FZR400 with a YZF600r motor in it. I love this bike and have been riding my franken FZR/YZF for years now. It just keeps going... http://www.bikepics.com/members/nynoah/90fzr400/

Anyways, I am sure some of you have read about how we can make stroker motors with FZR600 cranks. But the problem everyone runs into is the rods. You can used YZF rods, but you need to make a base gasket and then find adjustable cam sprockets to line up the camshafts after the spacer plate knocks it all out of whack. Plus that then raises the head which messes with the top mounts. Parts and prices add up for a less than standard motor build. You can use the FZR rods and bore them out, but that is playing with fire and its a waste of machining costs in my opinion. Some guys have found a solution by using some Yamaha rods for the british Fazer. But they are hard to come by in the US and still just normal rods. So I am going to have a some forged rods made at the correct specs (modeled after the Fazer) which are going to have the FZR600 length and the YZF600r wrist pin size.

So to make this a little easier to understand, with the right rods, all you need is the FZR600 crank and a seal for the cases on the YZF600r or use the FZR600 bottom end and no seal needed. You can either run the FZR600 electrics or have a custom igniter box made from http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm model SPARKER TCIP4. Which should be about roughly $300.

Can't beat that HP/tourque gain with a stick...

Anyways...

I have contacted a rod maker to make us some custom rods. I need to get 40 people in on this. I think between the FZRarchives, you guys and the 400greybike forum in England, this might be doable. The rods will be forged and able to take some abuse, which means that if you have the cash, you can get 1mm to 3mm over bore pistons and get this around 727cc. Time frame for this whole thing would be at least 90 days from 40 confirmed people. So this would be a great thing to invest in for a winter project.

Anyways if you want to read more from some of the guys who have done this. You can read some of these threads.
http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/index.ph ... opic=30847
http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/index.ph ... opic=50879

Price is going to be around $500 for a set of 4. Drop me a line if you are serious. Either on here or nynoah0@gmail.com Again, I am not a shop, just a guy who thinks the community needs this so I will make it happen. But I need at least 40 people to do that. I am hoping that between here, the FZRarchives and the YZF600r forums that we can do this.

Thanks
Noah

[Maelstrom]

With regard to your request, I think you should be naming the supplier, so that potential buyers can look into their credentials and make an informed decision.

I have always been able to get Carrillo to make custom rods in the past, even a single rod, and I have also found their prices to be very reasonable. Their quality is beyond question.

[nynoah]

I was quoted at 400 dollars a rod from Carillo. The supplier for these would be Scat who have been in the VW Audi world for a long time with no issues.

[Maelstrom]

Nynoah,
Certainly a great price. Scat have been around for a very long time, so your project sounds promising. Do you need to check rotational clearance on the big ends? What I mean is that the external profile of the rod clears the case etc.

[nynoah]

I most likely will. Right now I am in the phase of figuring out if there is even enough market demand to make this possible. But for clearances, I think the best thing for me to do is Send a set of FZR and YZF cases to Scat. One thing you guys on grey bike might be able to help out with would be sourcing a Fazzer rod. But If I can't get one, no worries. I will just get the specs for both the FZR and the YZF and do it that way.

[Evilchicken0]

It sounds interesting ... something that an FZR nut would do as a college project maybe

There could be a slight hicup from this side though. These are new parts and the $500, at the moment that's £325 then add postage, but then add tax, which would be 20% ... which brings it to about £500.

A secondhand 600 motor ... a 4JH can be about £100 a ThunderCat is £200
FZS600 Rods (and crank) £50 -75
FZR600 3HE crank - £50 - 75
You need gaskets and other things but basically this build comes up to a similar cost as the set of rods, albeit good quality rods.

Why don't you simply buy FZS rods it would work out cheaper ???
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-FZS-60 ... 3cc61f3e3a

[nynoah]

Because to be honest, I don't trust FZS rods to take the HP numbers that a 660 spinning at 13K would produce. As to the other smaller parts, sure you need to put new gaskets in, that is given for any tear down. But you don't need to make custom spacer plates or source adjustable cam sprockets.

I personally already have a set of carillo rods for the YZF600r, adjustable cam sprockets and all the other small parts in my garage. A 660 has always been on my back burner. But if I build one, I want to build it to look like stock and be more reliable. I don't like the idea of spacer plates or running weaker rods.

If anyone wants to make BIG HP with over sized pistons, then you need to have forged rods.

I am just trying to make a good product that can produce a good sleeper engine.

[Evilchicken0]

You have a road bike though, just don't rev it so high.

Yamaha rods are good enough (I believe) to take a hike in power, remember the Fazer will rev to a reasonable red line too. When you talk about the power you're only talking peak you won't be using redline revs for very long if at all and Dyno results are great but really only bragging rights when it really comes down to it. The good thing about the engine is the longer stroke and therefore torque, the torque is what you want.

Maybe I should come clean. I've read the FZRforum threads and although I don't know your user name I remember your posts - I even printed it all off to read on the tube train to college and I'm trying to do a 660 4JH with the parts you've mentioned. I found that the 3HE crank was heavy though so I've sent the pistons, rods, crank and starter clutch to be lightened and ballanced - I asked for the engine to pickup a bit quicker.

[NeoN]

mynoah,

I would suspect the simplest/cheapest way to get a 660 in the US would be Thundercat engine on FZR600 crankcases - I'm presuming Fazer bits are scarce in the US.
Yes you'll need a 3mm spacer - that would take you an hour-or-so to make by hand.
You can slot the cam sprockets to reclaim the 6-or-so degrees - another hour?
The head position is already going to be 'out' on an FZR400 and unless you have an RR (3TJ, etc.) there are no head mounts anyway.
I agree, the right length rods keeps things simple - you could get a set of Fazer rods from UK fleabay for about £50 - I paid £20 delivered including an unwanted crank.
The Fazer rods, apart from the model number and 3mm, look identical to the Thundercat ones; both are forged.

Getting Scat (or Carillo, etc.) rods for me would be completely illogical; for the cost of them I could build another 660 engine.

[nynoah]

Yeah it seems like a bust. Not enough interest. The frustrating part is that no one in England Ebay wants to ship to the US for the Fazer rods. I have wrote off to 3 different people and no go on shipping to the US. I am offering to pay... sigh

The other thing I was hoping to figure out was if the profile of the fazer flywheel was the same as the FZR 3HE. Because it looks like the same pickup points as the YZF600r.