Projex Dyno - NC30 & NC35 HRC Tests

[porndoguk]

Projex Dyno - NC30 & NC35 HRC Tests

So as some may know I arranged to see Kev @ Projex Motorcycle Engineers, on the Cosford meet day (2 birds, one stone).

Well Friday was rush day needed to get the bike ready and cleaned, wasn’t any point really seeing as the ride up was so wet it made a hash of efforts and allot of time wasted. But I had a new 520 RK chain to fit seeing as my other had rusted over the last few weeks since I took out for a short spin in February.








I called Kev a few weeks back, to arrange and book, and he asked if I knew anyone with a RVF HRC CDI as he’d been struggling to get anything substantial from his Ignitech (I feel partly responsible seeing as I introduced them to him - sorry) so I contacted Liam/Yakama, and I asked him if I could borrow his HRC CDIs for the RVF & VFR , he kindly sent the RVF one and 2 for the VFR, The SP unit and the uber rare NC30 HRC CDI,

Now firstly a HUGE thanks to him (Liam/Yakama) for doing this, at his cost, and giving me so much trust.
So send Liam some karmas for this guys,

A bit of back ground with my NC30 from last year’s dyno,
We achieved about 54bhp, with Jets 120r 118f, drilled slides, 2 shims, K&N panel filter, Tyga 330mm can, Yamamota rear, standard/bandaged headers, with a flat spot in the early midrange.
In addition I had a knackered 525 chain!

We also played around with my Ignitech and couldn’t get much difference with maps back then and did try a stock CDI from Derek’s VFR, reading were about the same,

-

So a few changed were made, Rick O needles, NC24 slides, 1 less shim, 118r 115f on the jets and a FULL tyga system with a 440mm Carbon can and a new 520 RK chain.

I set off yesterday morning at 7.45am'ish, and gave the 30 a good cannin up the motorway and arrived in Hopwood motorway services empty on fuel! So got raped by £1.48 a litre, then headed to Kevs and arrived about 9.50am



We started with a base run of 55.93bhp - 55% humidity so up from 54.45bhp - 29% humidity, humidity was much different due to the weather being damp; last year’s test was a nice spring day.

last year vs this years first run


stock vs stock & sp unit


We then went to stock NC30 CDI and achieved 56.42bhp,

We then added the HRC SP unit I was keen to see the difference we got 57.03BHP, but on a later test it made a loss,



Then went onto try the NC30 HRC CDI and we hit a snag, the loom! I can only guess one of two things, either the HRC loom has different plugs or someone has chopped and changed the plugs connectors,



My bike came off the dyno and onto the tests onto Kevs NC35, with a current baseline of 64bhp he put the bike on, warmed it up and calibrated the dyno, and started off with a test of 64.47bhp, then swapped over the CDIs to the HRC CDI, on went the next test and 63.45bhp but the rev limit is raised by 500rpm so a max limit of 14,500rpm. This was tested a further 2 times.





Kevs Standard CDI Vs HRC


Kevs Vs Mine


-

Afterwards me and Kev discussed what I could do next to solve problems, the flat spot is over rich, so either needed more air or less fuel, so said to drop the shims out, the top end power loss is down to lack of air, so we did the 400GB big NO'NO!

We removed the rubber flap, we ditched the Ignitech down on the disappointing results, and hit the dyno one more time, and achieved 60.1bhp! With just a stock CDI and rubber flapped pulled out,

Stock cdi & hrc sp unit and rubber flap removed vs ignitech and rubber flap removed


all main results green line being the last 60.1bhp


Ignitech Vs End result, Stock CDI & rubber flap removed


So my next things to do are;

Too cut the front off my air filter base, so I can get more air in,
Obtain a HRC feeder tray,
Up jet to about 120-122.5 Keihin jets,
Remove a shim,
I’m also going to recheck float heights and valve clearances,

So in conclusion

HRC SP unit,
Does nothing one run it added 0.5bhp, and on another is lost 1bhp, its nothing more than a fancy speed derestriction unit that could be achieved buy a 20p resistor?

HRC RVF CDI,
1BHP lost, but RPM limit increased by 500rpm to 14,500rpm

HRC VFR CDI,
No tests performed due to incompatible connectors, could have bridged them with wires but didn’t want to risk damaging it; also the wiring colours on the looms were different

Ignitech,
the CDI seems to struggle to offer any advance benefits at high RPM and offers no gain, with different maps and settings, it does offer RPM imitational settings and gear shift light etc,

Stock - OKI CDIs,
NC30 & NC35 seem to offer a good honest and reliable service, that does its job as it should, the 30 has a RPM limit of 14,500 where the RVF has a limit of 14,000

Summary

I think a placebo effect on HRC and Ignitech items and can be a misleading factor, and marketing to the public, however what hasn’t been tested or researched is the FULL race and HRC settings like internals which I guess could and probably would (the CDI added not the parts) give gains but it’s all a companionship if it did, so for the NC enthusiast I wouldn’t go to the costs to gain little or next to nothing on a slightly tuned road bike,

These are for high spec'd and blue printed engines/bikes, it does tell you on the packet/item not for highway use so maybe HRC are right :D

The Ignitech does offer LIVE full customization, and the ability to change maps, RPM limits, and gear change light etc which is a handy interface,

The problem I’ve found with working on NC's is there all different, for instance I’ve tried things that are brilliant on some bikes and crap on mine, the rubber flap has effected many people’s bike whereas with mine it lost me 5bhp in situe and gained when out, so when the Ignitech was developed no doubt it brilliant on the bike it was tested upon but then on mine and Kevs bike it did nothing to improve power or the dyno curve but yet lost over the stock.

-

A big thanks also goes to KEV at PROJEX Motorcycle Engineers, I’ve only meet him twice and feel I’ve known him years, not only can he dyno bikes, and do some amazing custom works on peoples bikes he makes amazing coffee, well worth going just for that :D

He donated his time to me, the forum and himself to find out the benefits of the CDIs,

So again send him some well deserved karma as no doubt if he didn’t like me he'd have charged me a lot of money, but on the same note he said that by testing the RVF HRC CDI I’ve also saved him in not having to buy one.

I do have videos but using mobile internet is causing problems uploading them via it, as soon as I get a proper connection ill YouTube them and you can have a butchers

Thanks for reading,

Ricky/Porndoguk

[Delboy]

Good research and nice to see some actual facts Rick, good work

[CMSMJ1]

Superb. Though i reckon no flap at speed will cause issues. We'll see

[kevprojex]

It was worth the time and effort to test the combinations on another nc , i tried a ignitech on my nc35 last year and got no power gains at all over the stock cdi unit, infact it made less power with the ignitech fitted on every test with different maps and combinations loaded.
The same results were shown on the nc30 as well, the ignitech showed a loss in power over the stock cdi so it was good to see the results on two different bikes, i was going to purchace a HRC cdi for the nc35 so a big thanks to Yakama for the loan of one for the tests as it showed no gain over the stock cdi on a stock motor,
the HRC cdi unit may give gains on a tuned engine but i think its a waste fitted to a stock engine.

[Yakama]

Great work guys, Ricky I would be interested to see the other run showing the loss of power when using the NC30 Sp unit compared to the run when it showed a gain

Now I wonder what gains could be have if any if these tests were run again with bikes set up with HRC Spec carbs as I assume that would make a difference when using the HRC units

[Drunkn Munky]

I belive they would, ive always thought it pointless using HRC CDI's on anything less than a bike fitted with HRC kit engine parts and HRC carbs. Honda didnt use a HRC CDI on the SS/SP cos its spec didnt need it, a simple redline increase was all that was needed/allowed. Saying that tho the RVF HRC setup doesnt use any engine kit parts, just a HRC carb kit.

The testing should really be done with the rest of the kit to get proper results, but well done kev, ricky and liam for finally proving fitted HRC CDI's to stock setups is a waste of money. Now liam if you send down that NC30 HRC CDI i'll happily test it with the HRC kit motor

[Yakama]

How about you send me that engine and I test it?

[Drunkn Munky]

You have too much HRC kit to play with

[RickOliver]

Kev -

I don`t get on here often so I didn`t realise until last week that these power loss issues existed with the Ignitech TCI units. I have already been in touch with their technical guy to ask if he has any thoughts about it. Ignitech are a good company and always ready to offer constructive backup so if you (or anyone else) could send me over copies of comparative dyno charts for OE vs Ignitech illustrating where the losses occur I will forward them and see if they can come up with a solution, hopefully something in the area of setup or software so that it`s a cost free retro fix for all the units which are already out there.

email - ricknc30@gmail.com

Rick

[Yakama]

I just wish I could have got a kit engine like yours? Its gonna take me a while to track down the rest of the engine internals I need. On a serious note I am sure a lend of the F3 CDI for you to test could be arranged once you have that engine up and running in a bike