Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

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Martin
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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by Martin » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:15 pm

Well done for getting the rear plugs out. Now you've got to get the front ones out (it'll be interesting to see if the Dyno dunce has actually changed them or not!) It's a little bit more of a struggle to get to them and expect scraped knuckles. You can avoid this by putting a piece of cardboard up against the engine side of the rad to protect it and your knuckles when you're removing the front plugs. As Mark has said put the ER9EH plugs in but don't bother trying to start it again until you change the Reg/Rec as you'll only end up killing your new battery and/or flooding the bike which will result in you fucking the plugs and having to do another plug swap which'll be another £40 down the drain.

I'm guessing the Dyno dunce doesn't work on V4's often and figured you didn't know much either and has taken advantage, first class prick. Get the right plugs from him (You've already paid for these) and get him to refund at least the difference as he appears to have done pretty much sod all and he didn't even do that properly.

Keep at it, we'll get there in the end BUT please read everything the bods on here are writing very carefully before asking further questions because the question has more than likely already been answered in an earlier post.

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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by porndoguk » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:23 pm

butler46 wrote:Im sorry, if iv'e Pissed you off, the guys that are helping me have the patience, and thats all that matters to me. i appreciate their help, and some of the Previous posts might be out of date, for example i got a new battery so i thought this might of sorted out A problem, now my bikes flooded, so im asking about that,.
Sorry hardnut, im 21 and not had the most experience on Bike mechanics, give me a Computer and i can Fix that ;) or If you want me to make you any Cocktail i can ;) thats my little Expertise lol..

he's Fitted ER10EH ???? what are these compared to the ER9EH ??? are they okay ???
and im sure there not Iridium

thanks Adam
firstly im pretty sure alex witham is 21 and hes pretty clued up and doesnt ask a gazillion Q's, so thats not an excuse ive been owrking on bike at the age of 4 or 5, as others said RTFA (read the fucking answers) ;)

also NGK ER10EH are not iridiums, as expected originally, atleast hes changed them but the 10's are designed for hotter running temprature and long distance riding. IE RACING!

and many have found out on the forum that 10's are crap to start any bike road or race, but even worse in the cold, hence you crap running issues.

the charging system in comparisson with the plugs are your problems to sort,

got to marks, hes a sound bloke, and know his shit, he can sort your carbs out and do the things the dyno dick didnt do!

and youll be riding home with a big smile on your face and thinking thank fuck for all that.

DO call the dyno ask what jets he put in, why he put in 10s and not 9s
also bare in mind hell be subject to trading standard laws.

do not post any more until you have info from the dyno and sorted the reg rec because we cant answer the same question over and over. as i said earlier RTFA ;)

:up:

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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by Hadies » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:01 pm

Thank god! I thought this thread was never going to end.
Nearly sorted now.

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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by Neosophist » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:43 pm

I dont think the ER10's are causing your problems (yet) * See below. It sounds you may have charging circuit problems (very common on these bikes) and have flooded the engine by improper starting technique. (very easy to do)

You need to fully test the bike before you start trying to fix things.

Until you know exactly what is / isn't working it isn't good to second guess things.

The bike needs fuel air and a spark to run the engine (it also needs ignitiona and valve timing to be correct but since these are fixed and you don't have a camchain to go slack we can ignore these for now as the bike does run partially)

So lets break it down further.

Fuel and Air:

When the engine is turned over the pistons suck in air through the airbox, this goes through the carbs were it gets mixed with fine amount of petrol to create a fuel air mix.

Fuel burns best at a proper mixture ratio. So you need to make sure your airbox is standard and your airfilter is standard and in place and clean.

Then you need to make sure the carbs are setup properly. They have different parts in them and they are easy to mix parts up.

Cammo has an excellent carb check / setup guide that will cover all of the above

Valve clearances

The carbs are connected to the INLET side of the engine and the exhaust is connected to the OUTLET side of the engine. When the engine is running valves get opened on the inlet side to let the petrol air mix in. They close and the petrol is burned.

The OUTLET valves then open to let the burned gasses out of the engine and the process repeats.

Because engines get hot, and metal expands when the engine heats up there are clearances (very small gaps) between the valve and the camshaft which opens the valve.

Due to engine wear the valves move and the gap becomes less so the clearance needs to be re-adjusted else the valves dont open enough or stay open too long depending on how it wears.

If they dont open close properly the fuel mixture can't get in and out and it makes the engine starting bad / runnign bad.

There is a valve clearance guide on here with pictures. check these when checking over the carbs.

electrical system

you need a good battery. charge it up fully with a motorycycle charger and leave it off the bike a few days and then reconect it and try and start the bike, if it doesn't the battery has been destroyed and is loosing too much charge internally.

Normally the battery provides power to start the bike and run the electrical items when the bike is idling.

when the bike is running above idle the generator provides enough power to run the electrics and re-charge the battery.

the power from the generator is much more than than the battery power so it is reduced by a 'reg-rec' (regulating rectifier)

These reg-rec's are prone to failure on the vfr... many people fit a Yamaha R6 reg-rec to over-come this. if your reg-rec breaks it can fail in one of two ways..

i. it stops charging the battery so the battery doesnt get recharges and your bike is hard to start / runs badly until it stops alltogether.

ii. it over-charges the battery.. instaed of reducing the power from the generator it lets too much in.. this 'cooks' the battery and produces the same symptoms as case i. but it also kills the battery :(

So you need to test all 3 components of the electrical system Generator / Reg-Rec / Battery.

Electrexworld do a good step-by step guide for this that has been posted on here lots.

Cammo also has an excellent guide on replacing your reg-rec with an R6 unit if yours has died.

Spark Plugs

The nc30 uses small 8mm plugs.. there are very fragile and easy to kill so you must start the bike properly..when choke is required use full choke and no throttle until it is ticking over nicely.

ER10's shouldn't be the root cause of your problem. They are electrically equivalent to the 9's but are colder plugs, designed to run in a hotter engine.

Image

The downside of these plugs is that unless you get the plugs up to an adequate temperature they won't clean propely and will foul up.

This will happen overtime if your not getting the engine hot enough but unlikely in such a short period, so it looks like you have flooded the engine which will kill any heat grade of plug.

I'd recommend using the correct range of plug though as it'll prevent longer term problems with starting and running.

So there you have it.

Until you've tested and verified all 3 sections are working / setup correctly it isn't going to run properly. This work shuold take a couple of days for a novice one day for an experienced mechanic.

Allow extra time to fit components if they failed.
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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by Hadies » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:17 pm

You can't ask for more than that ^^^^

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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by butler46 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:27 am

hi, thanks for that Neosophist, i will keep looking back at that for help,

im sorry guys i havent (RTFA) much, its just after 74 posts,its hard to know where to look back etc, so suppose i am forgetting and asking the same silly questions,,

thanks to all of you for helping.... and if you havent got the patience to help. (sorry) dont come ont this thread to read my questions :( Sorry people

btw: update: changed back 2 rear Spark plugs for the Er9s after putting them over the hob.. bike started up, after warming her up nice for a few mins, went out for a ride, and she was BEAUTIFUL,, i told me mum i wasn't going to get me hopes up though ;(

got to work fine @ 6,, then i finished work at 12.30, She nearly didnt start, until i put Choke on and IMO saved her from dieing, let her warm up for a min, then rode on home,, for the first 5 mins of the Ride, again, she ran like SH*T well nto as bad as other times tbh, she did run, and there was a bit more power, she just still back fired etc,,

a new Question!!!!!!!!!!! (sorry again :S)
how does the FUEL TAP work ????i under stand ON is on, and OFF is Off, and reserve is if your bike nearly runs out, in which you would need to pull over to change it onto reserve, but when should you turn your fuel off ???
i used to turn my fuel off quite regularly, but now (the past 6 months say) ive just turned my fuel (off) at night times when i put her away in the garage,
when i get to work for say 6 hours (6pm-12am) should i turn my Fuel Off ? or leave it (on) for 6 hours ???
just another of my silly questions,

Adam,

I will ring the DYNO man tomorrow to speak about the bike. can't wait to get the DYNO prints to show you guys,

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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by Cammo » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:46 am

butler46 wrote:got to work fine @ 6,, then i finished work at 12.30, She nearly didnt start, until i put Choke on and IMO saved her from dieing, let her warm up for a min, then rode on home
Until you get to know the bike (or at least fix the running issues) you should start it at all times using FULL choke NO throttle.

If you don't stick to this method you can and will easily flood it which will just add to your running problems.

:peace:
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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by butler46 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:20 am

Cammo wrote:Until you get to know the bike (or at least fix the running issues) you should start it at all times using FULL choke NO throttle.
ohh really, so just stick Full Choke on, then hold in the start up button, then wait till she Ticks Over ?
i think its just a habbit to want to give it some throttle too, if its wrong its wrong, but im sure someone in my past, has told me to give a bike throttle lol, :S

how about the FUEL tap, when should i turn off my fuel ??? when ive left my biek stood in town for an hour, or just at night ? thanks ;P

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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by BillingCBR » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:01 am

If it's standard the fuel tap has a little diaphragm in it, this has a hose on the back connected to the rear right carb rubber (between the carbs and engine) the rush of air going past the end of this hose makes a vacuum, which pulls the diaphragm open and lets fuel flow down the outlet.

As stated at the start, that's the standard setup, and as long as it's in good condition you could leave your fuel tap in the 'ON' position and no fuel would leak out. The 'OFF' position is only really needed if you have a modified tap (like mine is) which flows fuel whether the engine is running or not. I'm led to believe it's done to avoid problems with a split vacuum line (which would then close the fuel flow off) or similar.

So to shorten it down a bit, fuel tap position with a standard tap doesn't matter as it's not possible for fuel to leak down into the cylinders because of the vacuum diaphragm.

HTH

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Re: Bike Has Been DYNO'd on RES (reserve)

Post by butler46 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:47 pm

BillingCBR wrote:So to shorten it down a bit, fuel tap position with a standard tap doesn't matter as it's not possible for fuel to leak down into the cylinders because of the vacuum diaphragm.
so it doesnt really matter if i leave my FUEL on for the whole day ?? altho i suppose i should turn it off at night,,

could the way my bike rid last night, not a sabd as a week ag, but a little backfiring, be anythign to do with my 2 front plugs being flooded ?

i managed to start my bike on the 2 rear spark plugs being changed back to 9s. just wondered if riding the bike to work for 10 mins might of burnt of the front 2, or if i still need t replace them for a batter ride ?
thanks :)

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