rec/reg

[magg]

Battery failure with rect/reg failure is a common outcome if a charging fault is not identified soon enough and appears to be most common. Faulty stator resulting in failed battery due to under charging is the other possibility, but much less common I suspect. All three failing at the same time, even less likely. All three together so many times, would be fascinated to hear the history.

[Neosophist]

Failure of either unit is very rarely inter-related, so arbitarily or collectively replacing all the parts of the charging system is likely to be wasting money.

I must've just been unlucky the five times I've had a reg/rec fail on my bike for it to have had a failed alternator and battery as well.

Five times? Thats really weird. What batteries do you use and how do you look after them? Anything non-standard about your bike?

Abusing / neglecting a battery is the fastest way to kill a reg/rec as it has to work over-time to try and charge the weak / dead battery and the stock units don't do this very well and cook themselves.

The connector that joins the reg/rec to the generator can get shitted up over time, its worth cleaning it every 6 - 12 months and spraying some water disperanst like wd-40 in the connector. If it gets shitted up the resstance is higher so you need to pull more current to overcome it, which will heat up your generator. Usuaully this plug melts away.

Perhaps if the reg/rec failed and started to overcharge the battery you could also overload the generator and cook all 3, this happeend to me when I was riding a fresh purchase back with a failed reg/rec (I didt know at the time) but when I got back the battery genny and reg/rec were all scrap and Id took the battery with me as the bike didnt have one.

The charging system on the bike is designed to keep a fully charged battery at fully charged capactiy not to recharge dead batteries.

So as long as

1. your battery is less than 3 - 5 years old
2. you dont let the battery go discharged or flat (optimate it if not using it for longe rthan a week or so, sooner if you have an alarm / battery draining device on it)
3. your connections are in good order so there is no excess draw on the charging system.
4. The battery was filled / fully trickle charged to mfgs instructions before first use.
5. Should you flatten the battery tring to start it you fully charge it straight away and not bump start the bike.

Id think there to be something wrong with your bike if you had 5 units fail.

Most people find their reg/recs have dies when they end up with flat battery symptoms, usually having run the battery that came with the bike until it died, but then the new battery doesnt fix the issue as the reg/rec had died too.

So long as you maintain the charging system and battery and replace it before its too old and worn out even the stock reg/rec works fine.

Interesting youve had so much trouble though.

[jo]

Well your theories are all well and good, but I have had first hand experience of this. I've had the bike since 2001, and within the first week the reg/rec went! I am on the fifth now and each time, the battery has always been fine, not worn out or neglected, and it's cascaded and taken the alternator and battery out. Once we replaced just the reg/rec and not the alternator, and it took it straight out of action! Cost me a fortune that time as I had to get another reg/rec as well as alternator and battery. Rick's changed it a couple of times, as has my garage once and my boyfriend once, and now I'm on the fifth one.
I keep the battery on trickle charge all year and it gets replaced every two or so. Next time it goes, I'm going to ask Rick to upgrade it to an R6 one.

[speedy231278]

If your bike has eaten five reg/recs in 12 years, plus numerous batteries and had the alternator changed as well then there's something very wrong somewhere. Stuff doesn't just die due to luck. Unless you've been supplied with rubbish replacement items there must be something causing this. I've had my NC35 for 10 years, done over 80000kms on it, I've had a single reg/rec need replacing in that time, and the current battery is the replacement for the one it had when I got it.

I would suggest a thorough inspection of absolutely every last inch of the charging system to ensure there are no faults, poor connections, that sort of thing, although I suspect you've done that loads of times already. One thought does occur. Have you always used the trickler? Maybe, just maybe, it is that which is doing something weird? I only use my bike at weekends, and sometimes it sits about for a couple or three weeks before I get back home and use it again. I don't use a trickle charger, and it's always fine. Why not see what happens if you don't, or if you use a different one?

[magg]

Jo, why not make a few measurements on your charging system and then we can use the results to deveelop a cause of action to solve your current issue.

[jo]

:touchwood: I don't have an issue with it at the moment. The flat battery a few weeks ago was weird, but it's not done it since and the voltage is on 13.5 on tickover and at 5,000rpm. I checked all connections and earths and all is ok...

[jo]

I tried to test the ohms readings from the alternator before but I didn't understand how it reads on my volt meter on the ohms setting. When I get the tail unit off next maybe i'll do a quick test at the plug for the rectifier just to shut you all up! lol

[speedy231278]

Off the top of my head should be in the range of 0.1-1.0 Ohm between any two yellow wires. Check the condition of the plus at both the reg/rec and also where the alternator plugs in, which is a white connector that is attached to the fairing bracket by your right knee as you sit on the bike. I think the smallest scale you'll get on a multimeter for Ohms is 200, so set it to that. On my bike, they range between 0.4 and 0.5 at the alternator plug, and 0.5 to 0.6 at the reg/rec plug. If there's a big difference between the two ends, or they are both way off of the 0.1-1.0 spec, then you might have iffy wiring. it gets full of crap quite easily and the spade connectors corrode where the wire goes into them.

[magg]

Can you describe the circumstances under which you had the recent flat battery. Do you do a lot of short distance, low speed or lights on running? Can you identify the model of rect/reg currently fitted and is there good physical contact between the rec/reg and the chassis mounting surface?

[RickOliver]

Apologies for a slight thread hijack but it seemed like an appropriate place in which to mention this...

If any of you are seriously interested in some absolute state of the art charging system technology, I have just finished testing and can now supply the latest Electrex `advanced MOSFET` regulator rectifier.

In place of the regular diodes in the rectifier it uses MOSFETs which transmit current more effectively and run cooler, also the voltage regulator uses `Generator Unload Technology`, which is to say that in simple terms, instead of short circuiting the generator when the battery reaches full charge it is instead disconnected, reducing significantly the power lost in the generator and typically lowering its running temperature by up to 40 degrees (bear in mind that the generator is an oil cooled component, so that temperature reduction equates to heat not being transferred into your engine oil).

Here is the new unit - it is a little bigger than the usual replacement units but on my NC30 at least it does fit under the side panel in the usual mounting position. The purple wire is the voltage sensor which is simply attached to the +ve terminal of the battery.

Price details are on my latest July stocklist which will be uploaded into the usual location at the top of the V4 sections of the forum shortly - it`s not cheap but it is very trick...

Rick