NC30 Mods

[dx400r]

This im watching with extremely high interest.

Been looking for a way to achieve this for a number of months. Im happy to help document/ website / wiki how this is being done. Theres already some sort of VFR wiki out there.

I love my NC but her carbs right now...could be ALOT better (plus they weigh a ton)... I dont particularly enjoy fecking about with them.

Plus I have an inkling you could tease more power from a viffer with a nigh on perfect map. Still think I would be setting mine to overfuel a bit for some of the ole crackle and pop on the overrun.

[Drunkn Munky]

Any updates on this?

It doesnt look by any mean easy but you seemed to have cobbled it all together well, would love more details, pics and a list of parts used when you have time

[tayto94]

We doing something similar to this as a project in college - well we remapping an already fuel injected engine.

We went the motec route for the ecu, single throttle body upstream of the airbox, machined up new mounts to hold the injectcors. New loom is going to be built in the nex week or so.

What kind of sensors are you using for the crank and cam?
Did you get all from megasquirt?

[whizzo944]

Hello All,
The latest on the NC30 fuel injection project is like this. I have ditched the CBR600FS throttle bodies, I couldn't get the engine to run properly, my thinking is that they are way too big for the engine in terms of gas velocity. I am having some throttle bodies made from scratch and they are nearly complete. They have the same bore as the carbs, I am using the throttle butterflies and spindles from a set of carbs I have scrapped. Injectors are from the CBR600FS. Throttle position sensor is from CBR600FS, Inlet Air Temp sensor and Water Temp sensor I bought from a local auto electrical dealer. I think they are from a BMW car. I'm using them because they have the Bosch 2 pin connector on them. Crank sensor is Variable Reluctance sensor, standard NC30, I removed the 8-1 wheel from the starter clutch and made a 36-1 wheel. I am using wasted spark, so no Cam sensor needed. ECU is
Megasquirt V3.0 board with MS-II processor and MS-Extra 2.1.0 firmware. No photos yet, but I hope I've answered the questions, if I haven't then just ask.

Dave.

[whizzo944]

Hello All,
I just posted 2 new photos here

http://s870.photobucket.com/home/whizzo944/index

The rest of the project is as I described it earlier in this thread.

Dave.

[80sman]

Those throttle bodies are looking very nice.

I'm guessing the bell mouths are part of the machining of the throttle bodies? Or can you remove them for tweaking?

I have a couple of questions about the megasquirt system you are using. Looking into the options available we could go for microsquirt or megasquirt 1, 2 or 3.

Microsquirt is certainly the best solution for a bike regarding size, however I have some concerns about the need that the NC30 has for richer fuelling to the rear cylinders than for the front cylinders (I believe this is for the cooling of these 2 cylinders as they run hotter being at the back).

With this in mind is it better to go for a megasquirt version 3 with trimmable fuel tables per cylinder?

Currently the nc30 coils are wasted spark, what's your opinion about Coil on plug? I know mike norman from g-force isn't keen on it, but it would be easier to deal with the logic level inputs from the ecu. Have you found any short enough?

I'm also interested in which version would be required to deal with 2 wideband o2 sensors.

and another question......... sorry

I'm interested in your solution for timing, you mentioned a toothed gear on the starter clutch, is this a better solution than the pics I've seen from Durhban where they're welded a tooth pickup on the cam? Just to be a pain, I'd love to see some pics of this. It's an area I've got very little understanding in.

I'm very keen to see a working system for the nc30, it should give some good performance (at worst the same) with some good fuel savings to boot.


Thanks

[whizzo944]

Hello All,
To answer 80sman's questions:-

I am using a normal Version 3 Megasquirt board with MS2 processor. I don't have any sensor on the camshaft so I can't do fully sequential injection, only batch injection. The crankshaft sensor is where the original sensor is, on the starter clutch, I have cut off the original tin sensor ring and machined a 36-1 toothed ring to fit in it's place. The missing tooth is at 70 deg BTDC of the rear cylinders, but you can adjust this in the software, as long as the missing tooth is farther ahead of TDC than the maximum ignition advance you require plus a bit, maybe 10 degrees. My ECU thinks it is running a V8 engine in wasted spark mode. If I had the money, I would use an MS3 processor and an
MS3X expansion board, then I could run fully sequential fuel and sparks, but I would then need a cam sensor. I am using CBR600 coil on plug, firing them both together. I don't think it's necessary to have different fuel maps for front and rear cylinders, I have noticed that standard bikes have smaller main jets in the rear cylinders, but it seems to me as soon as anyone puts on a race exhaust, they seem to just use the same size main jets front and rear, correct me if I'm wrong about that anyone? i didn't use an MS1 processor because I don't think it can keep up with a 36-1 toothed wheel at 15,000 rpm. I'm not going to take the clutch cover off just to take a photo of the toothed wheel, sorry. It's almost like the standard one except it has 36-1 teeth instead of 8-1, and it only uses the rear Variable Reluctance Sensor, the front one is not connected.
The bell mouths are part of the throttle bodies, a friend of mine who has an engineering company made them for me, he did this because I repair his machines when they break. To pay someone to have these made would be a fortune, it's probably best to go to Jenvey if you really want to do this.
I had to cut out the bottom of the fuel tank, I bought a badly damaged fuel tank from a CBR600RR and cut the bottom out and welded it into the NC30 tank so I could fit the fuel pump. I believe the pump is a CBR1000RR unit, but they may be the same as a CBR600RR anyway.
I've probably forgotten to write about lots of things so just ask.

Dave.

[Drunkn Munky]

I don't think it's necessary to have different fuel maps for front and rear cylinders, I have noticed that standard bikes have smaller main jets in the rear cylinders, but it seems to me as soon as anyone puts on a race exhaust, they seem to just use the same size main jets front and rear, correct me if I'm wrong about that anyone?.

That does seem to be the general direction people take with jetting and aftermarket pipes, the reason why i dont know.

[whizzo944]

Hello All,
I made a little bit of progress today, I just assembled the throttle bodies and linkages. I put 2 new photos in my PhotoBucket album, if anyone's interested. I have created a minor headache for myself, I haven't figured out how to anchor the throttle cables or throttle stop I think my bike will be running in about a week's time or so.

Dave.

[80sman]

Thanks for answering the questions Dave, the whole project is looking great. Well done

Might have to copy some of your idea's there.

I was looking at the benefits of sequential injection and there appears to just be smoother running below about 3krpm and slighter better fuel economy....... seems like a lot of effort for a small benefit. There is the individual cylinder trimming as a benefit. But again, you would need either a wideband o2 sensor on every cylinder exhaust or some sort of way to measure individual exhaust gas temperature, sounds expensive and a bit over the top for a road bike.

There is semi-sequential injectors.... might be worth looking at, and they can be run from a crank sensor.

Looks like the microsquirt can do everything we need, do you know of a reason for looking at the megasquirt instead, what features do you think we might need from the more advanced ecu's?

Sorry not trying to be difficult, just curious... specially as the microsquirt module size wise is pretty much perfect for what we want.